According to one side, this controversy was caused by a member of Jamendo staff banning Hoxman (the artist behind Nehoryn and Elkysia) for merely making a remark about the absurdity of the Jamendo website being under a free Creative Commons license and it's source code being closed.

This wasn't suggesting change or criticising Jamendo as it currently stands.

As far as my perspective is concerned I see no particularly good reason why the Jamendo website should be open source, so this controversy is about the fact that someone was banned from Jamendo for a comment that could be considered as a criticism of the site.

Is there any need for this? Is there any good reason for preventing free speech? Do people know that they can be banned for expressing mere thoughts?

This forum is full of crap and when an outsider who wants to help Jamendo artists and the project as a whole makes a post they are generally confronted with mindless and pointless insults. This is actually damaging to Jamendo, but isn't moderated at all.

If someone from Jamendo would like to explain another side to this event then everyone is waiting. If we're not assured that something so unnecessary and careless isn't going to happen, people are ready to leave.

Post in this thread if you want free speech on Jamendo.

edit: You don't have to make a comment, merely "Count me in." or "+1" will do.

Count me in.

I think.. who cares what I think

There is no free art without free speech.

count me in


and besides that: web 2.0 app's will die, if no one want's to participate anymore ... jamendo is on it's way ...

The Magic Box or Hoxman is surely completly mad or maybe stupid, but anything can justify his suppression.
Nehoryn wants to share a future album "UNREAL" with SaReGaMa, Fresh Body Shop, Maniax Memori, Eclectek, Whiteshoulders and perhaps Melchiades (!)
So thank you to leave freely our band in this website that we like. I don't think hoxman with more thant 150 musics here wants something wrong to this plateform...
He is a cynic person who like provocate a loooot of, but all what he said is generally true. We must accept critics to evoluate.
Have a good night friends !

+1

While I do think it's fair that jamendo keep the code for themselves, being banned for this is just stupid.

free music, free culture, no judges

Bla bla bla bla!
What's that? Everyone's becoming William Wallace now?
Jamendo is a PRIVATE site, the owner can do whatever he wants without asking anyone.

SaReGaMa wrote: Bla bla bla bla!
What's that? Everyone's becoming William Wallace now?
Jamendo is a PRIVATE site, the owner can do whatever he wants without asking anyone.

Oh, I understand and completely agree. I just want the nature of the site to be clear to everyone who puts their music on here and generates advertising revenue.

It is important to remember that Jamendo wouldn't exist without the users. It's a symbiotic relationship.

open wrote: wouldn't exist without the users

, but would exist fine without some of them. I know at least 2 that got banned so far. Am I going to take my stuff and leave? Not.

SaReGaMa wrote: , but would exist fine without some of them. I know at least 2 that got banned so far. Am I going to take my stuff and leave? Not.

And many would agree with you. This is simply trying to uncover why an artist was banned and why discussions are being deleted from the forum. As you said, it's Jamendo's choice whether they take a more Google-centric 'do no evil' philosophy that has left them on top of the internet, or choose not to be a part of free culture.

I just imagine myself running a site and some bloke getting on me nerves for some time.

SaReGaMa wrote: I just imagine myself running a site and some bloke getting on me nerves for some time.

Me too, which is why I can easily understand how someone from Jamendo could have chosen to do it. All I'm trying to say in this discussion is that I don't think it's necessary, I'm not saying that I or anyone else who's not in the company has a role in determining Jamendo policy. But, if enough users agree, why not let it be

SaReGaMa wrote: I just imagine myself running a site and some bloke getting on me nerves for some time.

But The Magic Box is a person very calm who have posted just one post
Above all Sylvinus asked to the internauts their point of view and TMB have pointed a lot of bugs...
Jamendo is maybe a "private" site that lives thanks to the artists, thanks to a public licence, thanks to a "free world" which have some rules, thanks to voluntary admins...
For information, some persons have been insulted by the past in the french section and no one have been banned.
It's very obscur...

I'm sorry SaReGaMa but I'm breton (french), I believe in the democraty and the freedom.
I don't see why what is private can justify totalistarism above all when it isn't justified.
If the politic of Jamendo have changed, Open is right, this site have to be clear... by respect to the internauts.
Peace

SaReGaMa is also right that the Jamendo staff are the ones in control. From my perspective I don't think it can be justified, so I merely wanted to bring this to people's attention and see if any light could be shed on the matter. I don't think deleting discussions is the right way to go about something like this; if something specific isn't allowed it should be clear to the user.

Hoxman/MagicBox was banned by me not because of censorship (his thread is still here, you can go read it in the french forum), but because he's a profound ***hole who (after reporting a few bugs that we fixed, thanking him for his bugreport) started personally insulting me and other people while making nonsense accusations to jamendo. We don't want this kind of people here. It's not the first person we ban for personal insults and I'm sure it won't be the last, the same happens on every message board on the internet and for the record, we don't enjoy it, we'd better work on improving jamendo full-time than doing the police on the forums.

so please understand that it is not a "free speech" problem : we rarely delete threads, and the french forum (as this one) has many ones criticizing jamendo (sometimes for good reasons). it is a problem of personal insults and troublemaking that no moderator can tolerate.

cheers

Thank you sylvinus, I was hoping that Jamendo's perspective would shed some light on the matter.

Personal insults at those running the site are completely different and I would consider that as completely overstepping the boundaries of libertarianism. I see no need to delve further as all it'll just seem like one man's word against another, and as all I really know is that I respect both Jamendo (+ the people making it possible) and Hoxman's music it would be pointless.

My curiosity is satisfied

just lets make music gentlemen, thats what the site is about right?? the jamendo site is a good site, the moderators and persons behind this project are persons with feelings and have personal values, ive seen many artists critique some others opinions, work, etc. but the site is about music...some guys are making colaborative works here on jamendo, thats what is all about, teamwork and values in musical terrains.
this guy sylvinus i read his blog, and have seen his work and photos outside jamendo, this is just another project for him, its his work or hobby.
love jamendo, cos magnatune is too restrictive and selective, ccmixter is good, but this site for me is fuk$%$ revolutionary, i mean im from mexico, and this site is like heaven...for me...

thx adal :) let's all jam then :p

adal2007 wrote: just lets make music gentlemen, thats what the site is about right?? the jamendo site is a good site, the moderators and persons behind this project are persons with feelings and have personal values, ive seen many artists critique some others opinions, work, etc. but the site is about music...some guys are making colaborative works here on jamendo, thats what is all about, teamwork and values in musical terrains.
this guy sylvinus i read his blog, and have seen his work and photos outside jamendo, this is just another project for him, its his work or hobby.
love jamendo, cos magnatune is too restrictive and selective, ccmixter is good, but this site for me is fuk$%$ revolutionary, i mean im from mexico, and this site is like heaven...for me...

Well put, I completely agree.

Sylvinus, Hoxman didn't insult you (where ? )
And above all, why didn't you ban people who have insulted Hoxman by the past ???
It's incredible... !

I've been insulted too on Jamendo and no one have been banned.
I remember Hoxman who contacted a lot of time Amelie because he had some troubles with the same persons and no one was banned.
Sylvinus insults hoxman and he banned him because he can't accept his reflection and it's the fault of Hoxman/The Magic Box ?
If you can't accept your own weaknesses, Hoxman isn't responsable of that.....

Here the ONLY post in french made by The Magic Box :

http://blue.jamendo.com/fr/forums/discussion/15606/

Please, find just ONE insult against Sylvinus... there is nothing !

An insult against JAMENDO?

Cant even think of it!

But its a good point!

I will take care in my website too!

Bassista Matty wrote: Please, find just ONE insult against Sylvinus... there is nothing !

Now, look at these threads, it just an overall view :

http://blue.jamendo.com/fr/forums/discussion/14940/ > hoxman is a pathetic no-life
http://blue.jamendo.com/fr/forums/discussion/14805/ > I'm idiot, homophobe, pro-sarko, stupid, childish etc. etc. etc.
http://blue.jamendo.com/fr/forums/discussion/14509/ > hoxman is a fashist, stupid etc. etc. etc. (190 REACTIONS AND NO ADMIN HAVE MAKED HIS JOB !)
http://blue.jamendo.com/fr/forums/discussion/14550/ > hoxman also mentionned.....
http://blue.jamendo.com/fr/forums/discussion/14159/ > hoxman is mad
http://blue.jamendo.com/fr/forums/discussion/14274/ > hoxman is a spammer (!)
http://blue.jamendo.com/fr/forums/discussion/14195/ > hoxman have some menaces and insults.....

etc. etc.

No one have been banned. Compare the thread of The Magic Box with all insults and menaces that Hoxman have received here, and you will see something really grotesque !

I know hox, he's my friend and it's not normal that he's banned.
Please, give us back The Magic Box !

Thank you Sylvinus !

Bassista Matty wrote: I believe in the democraty and the freedom

Yes, it's a nice dream to believe in, I believe in peace and love, but these things in their pure form exist only theoretically. Take any country that pretends to be "free and democratic", analyze it thoroughly and you'll see that it's just an illusion. You may speak whatever you want, make public demonstrations, criticize government and all that, but who always makes final determining decision? - Right, mister Babylon, the government.

It's all just an idle talk that won't change anything.

Bassista Matty wrote: why didn't you ban people who have insulted Hoxman by the past ???

Why should he? He's not a kindergarten teacher to solve problem between members, but when it gets personal the owner has a full right to do whatever he wants at HIS OWN site.

I'm not defending Sylvinus or being against Hoxman - I don't know them. I had spoken to Hoxman only 3 times when he contacted me with a request to use some of my music. I got an impression that he's a nice and polite gentleman, so I personally don't have anything against him. On the other hand I heard not once that Hoxman is manipulative troublemaker and if he opens his mouth it's only to spit out something nasty. But this is not relevant. The point is : Sylvinus runs this site not for you and not for me but for himself, it's not about democracy, private site, private rules, take it or leave it, if you know any better place - what are you doing here?

Me too i insulted other poeple sometimes...and of course i will did it again!

I've been insulted too...and of course they will did it again!

And?

I don't care about it!

I'm only human...born to make mistakes! (Human League)

Ha!...i remember one day a person said to me "If you don't stop insulting other poeple,you will be banned from Jamendo!"

I started to laugh out loud!!!

I asked the question in return "Why do you like to see me banned from Jamendo...just because i said the thruth about some things?"

Some poeple they thinked to teach us there own rules...You can do that and you don't do that!!!

I'm not at school here!

I talk about the german forums here on Jamendo!

We don't like to see persons write us "Hey guys...more polite please....don't say that or that!"

Well...now we got our own rules there...and it works very fine...we don't need to insult one the other!

Hey!!!...i'm not a robot...you can't programm me...so shut up and go out of my way if you don't like me!

Yes...that's how i think...and i will never change my personality for other poeple!

Everybody got his own personality...his own religion...his own life...and maybe some poeple have a bad
life outside of Jamendo and then it's maybe harder to be always friendly with everyone?

Ok...i don't know the entire story about Hoxman!
But i ask the question : "Was it realy necessary to banned him from Jamendo?"

...i don't know...i don't know...

...and how much must i give attention with that what i wrote in the future here on Jamendo?....do i fear now to see
one day these words "Reznamor is banned from Jamendo"....?

Oh dear...i thinked always that Jamendo is just someting where you can listen or bring out music...but now it turns
to someting like a Soap-Oper...like Dallas or Denver Clan!?

I'm out of here...all this makes no sense!

Sylvinus (or admins) is responsable of all what is in the forum, it's just the law.
Discrimination and menaces are simply illegal. When a person insult you, again, and again, and again and nobody helps you, you have to defend yourself.
Check the thread before judje a person you don't know, I though you were more spiritual.
Hoxman is a very nice person in the real life but he expresses himself without no consideration or interest.
He prefers say what he thinks even though his music can have a bad reputation, I don't see the manipulative side of his personnality.
The question is not if I know a better place, Sylvinus ask our opinion about new version of Jamendo and Hoxman does : where is the problem ???
And then, Sylvinus bans Hoxman because he doesn't accept the remarks ? What does he want ? Where is the logic ?
I've said all what I wanted to say. People have to make their own opinion.
Good continuation.

(my post was a reponse for SaReGaMa)

YOU CANT THROW RUDE WORDS EVEN IN AN DEMOCRACY!

Bassista Matty wrote: Sylvinus bans Hoxman because he doesn't accept the remarks

I'm sure there's more to it than that.

SaReGaMa wrote: I'm sure there's more to it than that.

You have just prejudices -_-!
Makes a research of The Magic Box and points us where a ban is justified, then you can be sure of something.

It's not the point. Let's assume that Hoxman is absolutely right and Sylvinus is entirely wrong, he still can ban whoever he wants without asking anyone. You have a freedom to chit-chat afterwards on the forums, but it won't change anything.

Okay SaReGaMa, you understand totalitarism, that's good. Now The Magic Box is banned without some good reasons (and you don't care about that), but tomorrow that could be you or everyone here. Jamendo says that is a free website, but, where is the freedom in this condition ? I didn't say that The Magic Box was right, but what is sure that he had insulted no one in this website (that was what we reproch him), so what is the problem ? If you can't understand that or some conception of freedom, I won't change you and don't want to loss my time like that.

Bassista Matty wrote: tomorrow that could be you or everyone here, where is the freedom in this condition?

C'est la vie, that's how things work in this world. Get real!

Bassista Matty wrote: Sylvinus bans Hoxman because he doesn't accept the remarks

Even remarks should have some respect

reznamor wrote: "Reznamor is banned from Jamendo"..

Thats the reason why HOXMAN dissapeared! I was wondering where.....

KraftiM wrote: free music, free culture, no judges

Oh yeah? No judges?

Bassista Matty wrote: Here the ONLY post in french made by The Magic Box :

http://blue.jamendo.com/fr/forums/discussion/15606/

Please, find just ONE insult against Sylvinus... there is nothing !

If this one discussion is the reason of the ban...
I think Hoxman/The Magic Box has no conception of how to get his point across in a civil manner. I can understand sylvinus banning him for what he said. Was it the right thing to do? Probably not. Was it a just thing to do? I can't say it wasn't.

People like that MB just really like to argue; he made some points, but then spent hours, arguing, backing himself up, and so on - when he could have just had a nice cup of tea.

What a coincidence..... right now on youtube..... about banning, no references please, just the fun
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfgn2lOSx6M

open wrote: I think Hoxman/The Magic Box has no conception of how to get his point across in a civil manner.

But TMB is a person with plenty of humour, his intervention is cynical but his right on a lot of points.
We don't ban a person because he laughs at something without insults etc.
And phonicboom has true, TMB loves sometime arguing just for arguing :) And he's often the devil's advocate.
Now, when Reznamor, me or hoxman and a lot of people were insulted, we don't talk about "civil manner" here and no one was banned.
I repete, where is the logical in the administration ?
Hoxman is just a troublemaking (even though a lot of people is in general okay with him), why not, it's a point of view that I respect.
But it will be normal that ALL troublemakings was banned in the french sections... And that represents a lot of people !

The thread is just becoming more and more interesting. Its time for Sherlock Holmes to start investigation

Bassista Matty wrote: Hoxman is just a troublemaking

He is my old friend. He is innocent! Bring on the evidences before me and Dr Watson!

Bassista Matty wrote: We don't ban a person because he laughs at something without insults etc.

Why did he start making wild assumptions about the holidays and lives of Jamendo staff? I admit banning him was overkill, but he needed to learn to respect other people. Perhaps users could get temporary bans by moderators and sent an email to explain why, I don't know. I don't consider this particular incident to be about free speech, though bans for people causing Jamendo a little frustration should mostly be temporary. In reality Jamendo staff could just avoid the troublemakers until they overstep the boundaries of one discussion.

open wrote: though bans for people causing Jamendo a little frustration should mostly be temporary.

That's true! You cant go banning everybody! It will have bad influence on the public!

Free speech is relevant till it does not have any negative influence on others. Thats the motto!