hand gestures of the masons (wildly off topic)

i never said the organization didn't exist. what i want is proof of your outlandish claims of world domination.

:-)

About Atlantean Conspiracy book - as I said back then, I didn't read a lot, but the bit that I read was very unconvincing. I mean, how come that a secret society which is smart enough to create a world wide conspiracy fails to cover their tracks to such an extent that every dude with a bit of leisure like Eric Dubay can dig them out and reveal their vicious plans? More than that, Eric tracks the Bushs family genealogy back to Egyptian Cleopatra! How the fuck is that possible? I bet he even doesn't know who was a grandfather of his own grandpa, but he can tell you who was JFK forefather 500 years ago. Heh!

he didnt work it out with a pencil did he?

http://www.burkes-peerage.net

So he used this source? Copying from somewhere else is even worse than working it out with a pencil. From where the confidence that they know what they are talking about?

SaReGaMa wrote: I mean, how come that a secret society which is smart enough to create a world wide conspiracy fails to cover their tracks to such an extent that every dude with a bit of leisure like Eric Dubay can dig them out and reveal their vicious plans?

obviously the illuminati is made up of a bunch of old dudes who haven't figured out how to use computers.

BUT WHEN THEY DO...OH BOY, YOU WATCH OUT. THERE WILL BE MANY FLAME WARS.

SaReGaMa wrote: So he used this source? Copying from somewhere else is even worse than working it out with a pencil. From where the confidence that they know what they are talking about?

it is quoted by many publications the world over and is seen as one of the primary sources of its nature... sure maybe it's false, they defend themselves strongly against that claim, but maybe it is false and YOU know better than Burke's Peerage...

officernarc wrote: obviously the illuminati is made up of a bunch of old dudes who haven't figured out how to use computers.

you already posted a link to a video admitting the existence of one of the main groups ... so i guess you are just here for the shouting and nothing else ;-)

phonicboom wrote: so i guess you are just here for the shouting and nothing else

officernarc wrote: what i want is proof of your outlandish claims of world domination.

phonicboom wrote: YOU know better than Burke's Peerage

I just know that there's no way to know that.

officernarc wrote: officernarc wrote: what i want is proof of your outlandish claims of world domination.

i didnt answer because i never made them :-)

SaReGaMa wrote: I just know that there's no way to know that.

good ;-) well all i ask anyone to do is broaden their research - so were not too far off track

to every one here I don't say believe any thing - if some one tells you what or how to think you are right to question that - obviously - so i try not to say believe - just read around - until you do then you are being told what to think by your media your education and your peers who have the same media and education.

take Graham Hancock as an exaple with “Fingerprints of the Gods” about Egyptian times and "Supernatural" which deals with a substance also convered by Dr. Rick Strassman in his book "The Spirit Molecule" saregama has a song named after this, or similar, it is about Ayahuasca (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NZpOXj6u78) and it's component DMT (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grcqs9cDuN8)

one may see that some people think differently and that our couple of thousand year history is not all there was - we have been here, as intelligent or more so, for a very long time.... but our school education and media don't want us to ask.........

in a way officernarc and grefichadam are telling me to think in their way and deny anything but the norm - it is not me telling them how to think when i say "read around" it is them telling me that "you believe in shit" when all i do is explore more options....

so original and unconventional and controversial with his counter-culture ideas like no one else has ever thought of seeking out different avenues for their information and knowledge (to people on the fucking internet no less).

There was, like, a dozen more paragraphs to this but I deleted them because its not really worth it.

OfficerNarc posted this link....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0gzu-bBAMU

I watched it and the following quotes about the Bilderbergers can be taken from Jon Ronson...

“They see themselves as wise globalist centrists”

“They think the idea of a world government, which is what Bilderberg is into by and large, .... a New World Order”

“globalist industrialist leaders who think that politics shouldn't been in the hands of the politicians”

Does this not prove the point Phon and I are trying to make? We are trying very patiently, to explain to you that at the very top echelon of our power structure, there are those pushing for global government, that is out of the hands of politicians and therefore out of the hands of the people. They want a New World Order with themselves calling the shots. Can I make it any more simple?

OfficerNarc says: “the modern, unthinking leftard who accepts what they read on the internet as law.”

Firstly OfficerNarc, left and right mean bugger all to me. I'm a Libertarian, your whole left – right thing is but an illusion. I read the internet and government documents, and books by researchers, and take into account mainstream news even. Then I stir it around and with the help of time, make a judgement as to where it's all pointing.

It's funny how you keep going back to the whole internet issue and saying you want proof, but you're more than happy to accept what mainstream TV tells you, even though you must surely be aware that the very people who own and control these stations are globalists themselves.

Most of the stuff cited as proof on the internet comes from stuff that's on the public record. The only thing people like Alex Jones do, is try to help you join the dots.

OfficerNarc says: “nothing YOU say has any grounding in reality”

Ok, so Bilderberg doesn't exist then? Even though you posted a link to a guy talking about it on CNN. See how many links to it you can find in the major American or British newspapers. And that link you posted, was from a Bilderberg meeting a few years ago, not this years....

Grifeichadam wrote: ...like no one else has ever thought of seeking out different avenues for their information and knowledge...

So where is your information? Your only input has been shout down anything as dumb...

joooo wrote: a number of good points...

good points :-)

One more thing too, Narcmeister....
about that alexjoneshoax or what ever blogspot link you posted... who gives a shaman's shit whether AJ has a friend who writes about Jews?.....the stuff that AJ and many others rave on about is pretty damn obvious if you just open your eyes and wake up a bit. Just have a look. I mean, if you like you can Baa, Baa, Baaa and go and eat the propaganda with all the other sheep, but if you've got an ounce of instinct left, just consider that fact, that it's entirely possible, you're being screwed up arse by your system...and that there's stuff going on that you might want to know about.
This isn't a flame. This is me begging my fellow humans to wake the f**k up and smell the coffee.
Peace.

...lalala.....

...baba blacksheep...

"ignorance is their greatest weapon"

thanks for your input Mudit

your welkome.

A smiley released by the Masonic secret society ------------> <-------------------

that sign seems like that of 'yo'. Only the thumb is missing.

That sign and the 'i love you' and the one that became 'hookem horns' and so on are how these things are brought into the social norm so they are focused upon even without knowledge.

think how many times a cross is worshiped every day by millions and they focus their energy into the thought of good being killed.

(no I am not even remotely christian)

many times a day the average person focuses attention onto such symbols, or even displays them, not even knowing of their originators intent. There are many of them especially in the architecture of cities.

The M sign was even played with by Ali-G but as a W - this interchangeability is all part of the game. So kids are doing it too - but my favourite example of that was Spider Man.

I know this forum is not the place for such debate - I was drawing attention to the book, this discussion is going on around the web and making news where it matters, as much as the doubters played their part in this conversation the book received 1500 hits that week alone.

,.|..

phonicboom wrote: received 1500 hits that week alone.

Not a good average.

ljmudit wrote: Not a good average.

you are such a tool at times mudit --- there is no "average" in 1500/1 is there it equals 1500! what average are you talking about?

it is great for a book which most people dismiss due to prejudice and was promoted solely by the author and 2 friends.

some people talk simply because they have a mouth.

I think a memeber of an esoteric society bumped into this book and recommended it to the entire fraternity as a good joke, that explains the high number.

phonicboom wrote: some people talk simply because they have a mouth.

...and I think we use our hands to write something and not speak with our mouth. What happened to you mate? Wats wrong? Is it the beer?

phonicboom wrote: you are such a tool at times mudit

I am itching to know which kind of tool I am? Am I a plier? A hammer? Nuts and bolts...?....

ljmudit wrote: I am itching to know which kind of tool I am? Am I a plier? A hammer? Nuts and bolts...?....

Hahaha!

Mudit, maybe you are a pry bar? Not bad!

yeah...I think I am a screwdriver...

this book and erics first book are now linked to by Micael Tsarion which is endorsement indeed :)

If you don't think they're controlling everything in the world... you're an ignoramus! Read, read, read and read some more. (Not just this book, a lot of books contain far fetched ideas and theories) but seriously.... There is hard proof out there if you have the balls and brains to find it. Don't toss it off as not possible.

FOR EXAMPLE: Here's one piece of hardcore evidence.. Ever notice the pyramid with the eye on the back of the american dollar bill??? Yep, that's freemasonry symbolism FOLKS!

Open your ignorant minds.

JanPeter wrote: Open your ignorant minds

welcome!! at last someone who is awake! :-D


EDIT: I spoke to eric and the total book downloads is now over 22000.

but yes as JanPeter says there is plenty more to be reading than one small picture book - Jan I recommend http://www.atlanteanconspiracy.com/ and the book "the atlantean conspiracy" :-)

As I understand this is another movie with subliminal messages produced by Masons :

this is a flop movie

Just watched it, it's not that bad. It's about a pyramid - another Masonic symbol.

scroll down this page for the free torrent of zeitgeist http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/dloads.htm

or view it on youtube or google video

it answers 3 - 4 af the major questions that wake people up

Seeing connections where other people don't see them is called genius. Seeing connections where they don't exist is called paranoia.
I wonder which one is you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeitgeist,_the_Movie#Criticism

I hate god.

Ok , just have watched Zeitgeist. It's abundant with unbiased cock and bull stories, but worth watching anyway, because it can provide you extra perspectives.
For those who know how to use rapidshare :

http://rapidshare.com/files/68952633/Zeitgeist.DVDRip.XviD.part1.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/68953179/Zeitgeist.DVDRip.XviD.part2.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/68953774/Zeitgeist.DVDRip.XviD.part3.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/68949023/Zeitgeist.DVDRip.XviD.part4.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/68949787/Zeitgeist.DVDRip.XviD.part5.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/68950780/Zeitgeist.DVDRip.XviD.part6.rar
http://rapidshare.com/files/68951732/Zeitgeist.DVDRip.XviD.part7.rar

What you gonna say about this video?

well i don't like coincidence theory :)

and I don't say believe anything...

I honestly think the truth is well outside of humans ability to put it into words

that is why I ask people to question their beliefs that they took from books or other people ;)

so far i have just quoted and pointed to other people so now some quotes from me;

me wrote: Life: There is no one sentence to completely explain it. By the second sentence, you’re fucked.

me wrote: Politics: As soon as absolutely anything becomes “Them and Us”, not “You and I”, peace can only deteriorate.

me wrote: Philosophy: When you settle on a label, you loose your suppleness. You stiffen up and wait for the world to consume you.

me wrote: The answer moves. All is dynamic, including the answer. All is interdependent, mutually arising.

me wrote: Awakening: If your path relies on books, you would pass an exam in it. Only a quiet, unquestioning mind has it.

me wrote: The state and the answer are simultaneous. Lose one, lose both.

from here http://www.chriswilshaw.info/tao-thoughts.html

so i point people who dont question stuff to question it. Once you know the Bibble is Dribble and not about real people you made a step but millions, probably billions, believe shit that is far far far more weird than me :D

Buddhists are a step closer to the truth but only when they discount buddah as being anything other than a guy to hang a story on. Much of the philosophy is nice and true but the more literal it gets, the more false.

I'm not really sure saregama fits into the group of people i am taking to with these links; you at least question stuff. so join in ridiculing those that dont and do not think i unquestionably believe this stuff - i dont - i point people towards it who believe in more stupid stuff ;-)

on a lighter note....and to show i don't take it that seriously i also write stuff like this....

monks, the invention of god and the buddhist precepts

buddha


but back to the book....

a key point to the hand gestures book is not so much that masons do this but that they beilve it to have power and meaning ;-) so are lost in illusion.

here is someone who knows what I mean .... tinmenace quote

SaReGaMa wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeitgeist,_the_Movie#Criticism

interestingly wikipedia and the quotes of some corporate news is enough to discredit a movie?

the thing that the movie does is not necessarily to state fact but to state "that stuff you take is true is worth taking a 2nd look at"

i think you know it is an interesting movie all the same :)

I would like to make a contribution to "famous freemasons exposed" book.
Close-ups from my private photos :

yeah, i dont see the masons here, just some coincidental hand positions. I have rather unfortunate hands that so sit in an M gesture quite naturally at times. If i was famous I may have made it into the book, but saying that I have not found a photo of me in that pose :-)

I had this debate with eric, we have both had it on numerous forums many with masons arguing back... the thing is that the deliberate poses, especially the old paintings, are hard to discredit; we even have some modern day evidence of the gesture in action...

Mine and erics viewpoints are different and everyone else has the right to theres (stating the obvious here)

the real deal for me is; while things are just the way they are and can be no other way - it does not change the fact that could i choose I would not have death and famine .... and i have no one to blame but the leaders and therfore the sheep who vote them in and respect their authority.

i leave everyone else to their own beliefs - if one thinks otherwise (and many do) so be it, sleep well ;-D

phonicboom wrote: i dont see the masons here, just some COINCIDENTAL hand positions

It's the same hand positions as in the book. How do you decide what is COINCIDENTAL and what is DELIBERATE?

this is my dude. Payed up-mason

SaReGaMa wrote: It's the same hand positions as in the book. How do you decide what is COINCIDENTAL and what is DELIBERATE?

where are their faces? :-) i can see the hands ...

I know a painting is deliberate, a pose is deliberate - as i said, some can be coincidental hand positions

you gave me hands only ....

EDIT - what i mean by that is if it were a mason doing the gesture or your sister it would give some clarity.

phonicboom wrote: I know a painting is deliberate,

So I guess these drawings from the drawing tutorial make their author - Andrew Loomis a Mason?

There are so many positions that a human hand can do and there's thousands of photos and paintings depicting them, but somehow you choose to focus on the posture where middle and ring finger are adjoining. That's my criticism to you : you don't see the whole picture but concentrate upon aspects that serve your self-contradictory paranoid theory. You're accusing people in being a blind herd and don't see that you belong to "alternative" smaller herd denouncing the "main stream" one.
It's very plausible that there is conspiracy going on, and there are men behind the curtain, but don't delude yourself that you and your buddy had worked them out.

delude "my"self "i" focus on the one aspect?

1) you are confined to the M
2) erics book points to at least 3 and book two will point to more, his current research for that and even book one point to the fact that there are many many including some that show numbers, some (as we all know) are for mediative and spiritual work... the book pointed to these 3 (plus the hidden hand) used by historic masons; the M being quite well hidden even taking many masons by surprise that it came out publicly.
3) you are giving pictures of hands only - erics book on the whole showed masons, secret society members, easter star members and so on - hence the name famous masons exposed

-------

I am not focused on one aspect - this thread is ;-) and as i said, there has been plenty more debate away from here about it too. As well as coming to check on this thread there are many more, many on very different aspects of the "conspiracy"

do not think i am not aware of the parts that are in place in this, this thread is very low level at a music forum where most responders are highly critical of one aspect. The fact I come to answer is that I try to step by step get people to look wider and in doing so saregama who is a little step ahead accuses "me" of focusing on "one" aspect, so be it, never mind.

this book as we know is a very small portion, very small indeed of what people miss in their daily lives;
1) geometry of cities
2) every statue in their city
3) corporate logos

and so on are more of these minor, yet in your face, "hidden in clear view" things that step by step they will be made aware of until they get up and read and see the bigger picture for themselves.

there is a much bigger picture yet each small part will be given it's full weight until people remove the inertia. This book is promoted in ~200forums (why you don't see eric here much) and has had ~25000 downloads - the next book will be promoted in the same manner. I ask those "ahead" in their reading not to slow the progress by battling over small aspects when they know a bigger thing is in place. peace :-)

so to put this matter to rest;

12 signs of the zodiac / 12 disciples

one sun / one son

= 13

M = 13th letter of the alphabet

M gesture = sun cult

----

now onwards to the bigger picture.............